scontro di civilta':il medio oriente verso il progresso o il fondamentalismo?

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Mirko e i furetti
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Messaggio da Mirko e i furetti » mar mar 01, 2011 9:33 am

credo che kristof abbia cercato di rispondere ai tuoi dubbi lav.
Is the Arab world unready for freedom? A crude stereotype lingers that some people — Arabs, Chinese and Africans — are incompatible with democracy. Many around the world fret that “people power” will likely result in Somalia-style chaos, Iraq-style civil war or Iran-style oppression.

That narrative has been nourished by Westerners and, more sadly, by some Arab, Chinese and African leaders. So with much of the Middle East in an uproar today, let’s tackle a politically incorrect question head-on: Are Arabs too politically immature to handle democracy?

This concern is the subtext for much anxiety today, from Washington to Riyadh. And there’s no question that there are perils: the overthrow of the shah in Iran, of Saddam Hussein in Iraq, of Tito in Yugoslavia, all led to new oppression and bloodshed. Congolese celebrated the eviction of their longtime dictator in 1997, but the civil war since has been the most lethal conflict since World War II. If Libya becomes another Congo, if Bahrain becomes an Iranian satellite, if Egypt becomes controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood — well, in those circumstances ordinary citizens might end up pining for former oppressors.

“Before the revolution, we were slaves, and now we are the slaves of former slaves,” Lu Xun, the great Chinese writer, declared after the toppling of the Qing dynasty. Is that the future of the Middle East?

I don’t think so. Moreover, this line of thinking seems to me insulting to the unfree world. In Egypt and Bahrain in recent weeks, I’ve been humbled by the lionhearted men and women I’ve seen defying tear gas or bullets for freedom that we take for granted. How can we say that these people are unready for a democracy that they are prepared to die for?

We Americans spout bromides about freedom. Democracy campaigners in the Middle East have been enduring unimaginable tortures as the price of their struggle — at the hands of dictators who are our allies — yet they persist. In Bahrain, former political prisoners have said that their wives were taken into the jail in front of them. And then the men were told that unless they confessed, their wives would promptly be raped. That, or more conventional tortures, usually elicited temporary confessions, yet for years or decades those activists persisted in struggling for democracy. And we ask if they’re mature enough to handle it?

The common thread of this year’s democracy movement from Tunisia to Iran, from Yemen to Libya, has been undaunted courage. I’ll never forget a double-amputee I met in Tahrir Square in Cairo when Hosni Mubarak’s thugs were attacking with rocks, clubs and Molotov cocktails. This young man rolled his wheelchair to the front lines. And we doubt his understanding of what democracy means?

In Bahrain, I watched a column of men and women march unarmed toward security forces when, a day earlier, the troops had opened fire with live ammunition. Anyone dare say that such people are too immature to handle democracy?

Look, there’ll be bumps ahead. It took Americans six years after the Revolutionary War to elect a president, and we almost came apart at the seams again in the 1860s. When Eastern Europe became democratic after the 1989 revolutions, Poland and the Czech Republic adjusted well, but Romania and Albania endured chaos for years. After the 1998 people power revolution in Indonesia, I came across mobs in eastern Java who were beheading people and carrying their heads on pikes.

The record is that after some missteps, countries usually pull through. Education, wealth, international connections and civil society institutions help. And, on balance, Egypt, Libya and Bahrain are better positioned today for democracy than Mongolia or Indonesia seemed in the 1990s — and Mongolia and Indonesia today are successes. Prime Minister David Cameron of Britain visited the Middle East a few days ago (arms dealers in tow), and he forthrightly acknowledged that for too long Britain had backed authoritarian regimes to achieve stability. He acknowledged that his country had bought into the bigoted notion “that Arabs or Muslims can’t do democracy.” And he added: “For me, that’s a prejudice that borders on racism. It’s offensive and wrong, and it’s simply not true.”

It’s still a view peddled by Arab dictatorships, particularly Saudi Arabia — and, of course, by China’s leaders and just about any African despot. It’s unfortunate when Westerners are bigoted in this way, but it’s even sadder when leaders in the developing world voice such prejudices about their own people.

In the 21st century, there’s no realistic alternative to siding with people power. Prof. William Easterly of New York University proposes a standard of reciprocity: “I don’t support autocracy in your society if I don’t want it in my society.”

That should be our new starting point. I’m awed by the courage I see, and it’s condescending and foolish to suggest that people dying for democracy aren’t ready for it.
fonte: new york times

saluti pronti
Mirko


ilfo

Messaggio da ilfo » ven mar 04, 2011 6:44 pm

le dinamiche nei paesi in cui son scoppiate le rivolte son diversissime.
In iran c'è già un governo fondamentalista,
quindi se lo buttano giù la vedo dura che ne rimettano su uno uguale
In Egitto ci sono i Fratelli Musulmani, che son stati a lungo repressi da Mubarak, sono un partito molto eterogeneo in ogni caso, così come ci sono i fondamentalisti ci sono i riformisti, quindi non si può prevedere che deriva possa prendere l'Egitto.
E comunque le rivolte son partite dal popolo, non dai fratelli musulmani, e il popolo per ora sta tenendo d'occhio tutti i movimenti che si stanno facendo nei posti di comando.
la Tunisia la conosco poco, ma nelle proteste non ho sentito alcun slogan islamista.
L'arabia saudita è già fondamentalista, ed è un paese molto amico dell'occidente.
Lo Yemen è complesso, ci son già state (mi pare) due guerre civili, la popolazione è armata fino ai denti, ma più che fondamentalismo ci sono tribù in contrasto l'una con l'altra.
La Libia la conosco ancor meno, so che è del tutto diversa dagli altri Paesi, come dinamiche, perchè non c'è proprio una tradizione partitica, ci sono tribù che controllano le varie regioni (3?), c'è anche chi sostiene che le proteste stiano deviando verso un tentativo di divedere il paese in zone petrolifere sotto controllo diverso.
La cosa che più importa però è che questi popoli hanno avuto il coraggio di capire che era il potere ad aver paura di loro, e devono stare vigili perchè chi vien dopo non li sottometta a qualcosa di simile o peggio.
E soprattutto, noi benestanti occidentali dobbiamo opporci con tutte le nostre forze a un'invasione della Libia.
Perchè gli interventi armati non portano la pace.
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Scilla
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Messaggio da Scilla » dom mar 06, 2011 11:45 am

lenina ha scritto:Questo è l'unico motivo per cui c'è tanto interesse per queste rivolte eh.
Non perchè sono vicine, importanti, storiche.
Ma perchè potrebbero toccare la nostra economia in modo fortissimo.
Di rivolte ce ne sono ogni giorni ma le altre sono meno "interessanti" dal nostro punto di vista
concordo pienamente con elena!
ora finisco di leggere tutti gli interventi, è un post molto interessante
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